The Top Six Reasons Fallout 3 Is Better Than Fallout New Vegas
![The Top Six Reasons Fallout 3 Is Better Than Fallout New Vegas [After Playing Both, I Discover Six Reasons That Fallout New Vegas Just Can't Surpass Fallout 3...Yet]](http://tftscdn4.nexus404.com/Blog/thumbnailimages/alt/fallout-new-vegas-logoTFTSThumb220153.jpg)
The recent release of Fallout New Vegas has left the gaming community abuzz. Would we get a worthwhile title, or was this actually released too soon? I’ve been playing it for the last couple weeks now, and I’m convinced I’ve barely scratched the surface. We’ve already reviewed it here, but now, I’m set to take a look at it to close out the week. As much as I liked Fallout New Vegas, I just don’t think it stacks up to its previous installment. Fallout 3, so far, has been better than Fallout New Vegas, and here are the top six reasons why.
6. Too many continuity issues. I understand that Fallout 3 isn’t related to Fallout New Vegas, but we ARE in the same universe here. And as such, there were plenty of strange details no one seems to be willing to account for. For instance, while it was good to see the Brotherhood of Steel still up and running, I expected their presence to be a lot bigger given how near to their home ground they were. And where was the Enclave? For crying out loud, the Enclave is one state away! How is it NOT interfering? Surely the Enclave didn’t lose sufficient forces in the oil rig disaster to not have a presence left in California! Surely everybody didn’t pack up for the Capitol Wasteland! And while we’re at it, we’re in Nevada this time. Aliens got their own downloadable content in Fallout 3, but we can’t go to Roswell? Area 51? I’d like to at least see the Area 2 the Boomers were talking about where they landed their upgraded weapons. I can’t find it as is. Maybe there are explanations for some of this in the likely upcoming downloadable content, but for right now, lots of strange gray areas exist.
5. Frequent bugs. Sure, Fallout 3 was not without its issues–strange animal / rock hybrids where the various horrors of the Wasteland had fused with rocks–but they’re all over in Fallout New Vegas. I have lost multiple save games to Fallout New Vegas’ strange memory issues (seemingly whenever I come out of Vault 3), and once, I fell through the floor at the train tunnel near the Boomers’ camp. I was magically deposited in front of the exit, but it was still pretty weird. My companions would appear and disappear at random. I even had problems with the loading screen locking up. That roulette wheel suddenly stopping was an active heartbreaker. Sure, there are patches now, and that’s great. But still–even with patches, plenty of people are still having troubles.
4. Forced replay value. The game depends heavily on factions. Whether you’re working with the New California Republic, Caesar’s Legion, Mr. House, or just working for an independent New Vegas, you’re working for somebody. But what this means is that you can’t see everything your first trip through. Because once you get sufficiently deep in with some faction, you’ll be shunned by the other factions. My first playthrough found me committed to an independent New Vegas, and after starting to work with Mr. House, I was told that the NCR and Caesar’s Legion weren’t interested in working with me. That means, unlike the original, you can’t do everything in one go. You essentially have to restart (or go back to saves before you find yourself committed to one faction or another) in order to see how everything comes out.
3. Relatively limited story. Where with Fallout 3, you’d find both a larger story and a whole array of little stories. Whether you’re trying to help the Brotherhood of Steel wipe out the Enclave or you’re just out to save Megaton from an atomic fireball, you had all manner of stories. But in Fallout New Vegas, you’ll often find locations that seem to have no purpose. My time at Coyote Tail Ridge was a largely pointless venture, and I still find myself wondering what it means. I can’t find any actual purpose, other than a handful of graves nearby. It seems unconnected to any story, and…it’s just there. Why is it there? The Wiki gives me some story about NCR ambush teams and the whole Great Khans thing, but is this worth making a location out of it?
2. Radio options fewer. First, it IS awesome that they got Wayne Newton to handle the voice of Mr. New Vegas. That’s great. It’s wonderful, it truly is. But that having been said, Mr. New Vegas is no Three Dog. The news does not keep up the way it did back in Fallout 3. I remember Three Dog being horrified when I sent a horde of feral ghouls rampaging through Tenpenny Tower, and being filled with hope when I got Brian Wilks a home in the Capitol Wasteland. Mr. New Vegas, meanwhile, is too busy schmoozing to invisible characters to bother too much with what I do, and that detachment is disappointing. Dammit, Wayne, I just sent a horde of Caesar’s Legion slavers to their fiery deaths in Nelson, the least you can do is stop flirting with whatever blue hair happens to be listening long enough to say something about it! Oh, you did? No, you said the NCR took it back. The NCR stood around looking stupid while I handed Dead Sea his silly little skirt, but do you mention me? Oh no. Not you.
1. Increased emphasis on speech challenges. This annoyed me, and annoyed many of the folks I talked about with this, but for some reason, Fallout New Vegas depends a lot more on speech challenges than anything else. I, like many of my contemporaries, began by tricking out my skills in firearms and explosives, lockpicks and medicine and the like. But as it turns out, the biggest part of this game seemed to be the thing I usually needed least, especially in the last go-round. Sure, in Fallout 3, if I was a smooth talker I could get some things done. But in Fallout: New Vegas, I’m at a serious disadvantage if I can’t talk straight. It’s almost preposterous how much of this game depends on my ability to talk my way out of a fight instead of blast my way out of it with something heavy, and energy based.
Let’s not forget the central thrust here. For the most part, Fallout New Vegas is a great game, a fantastic time and well worth your time to play. It just has a rough time competing with its predecessor, and hopefully, as the inevitable flood of DLC emerges, Fallout New Vegas will only get better. But as it sits right now, it just can’t beat its predecessor. The student has not yet surpassed the master…though it may.
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I agree with all of the points made in the article and would like to add a few:
1. There aren’t enough enemies, and the enemies that there are are weak. Granted, the creatures are tougher but Caesar’s legion soldiers throw spears while I have a plasma caster. And, you don’t even have to fight Caesar’s legion if you don’t want to. I miss the Enclave. One of the best moments in Fallout 3 would be that random encounter when you’re walking around the wastes and an Enclave vertibird comes in hot to drop off shock troops intent on turning you into green goo.
2. What’s up with the Super Mutants? I used to love sneaking up on them in buildings or sniping at them from afar while they shot rockets at me. There are some Super Mutants in the Mojave Wasteland but not enough, and now we’re supposed to care about them–it all seems too pc.
3. I guess the biggest problem with Fallout New Vegas is the fact that you get to choose your enemies. Which is an interesting concept but goes against the purpose of the game–to shoot things. The conflict in New Vegas is not you against the world, the conflict is already established and you end up feeling like an arbitrator between waring factions. I think it’s in most people’s nature to smooth things out between conflicting parties, and this is allowed (and even encouraged), but again, that’s not why I bought the game.
Having said all that, the game does have it’s moments and it is still fun, just not as fun as Fallout 3.
I preferred this over Fallout 3. The reason the Brotherhood and Enclave are so different is because Bethesda messed up Fallout 3′s lore and such. A majority of Enclave were killed, and the Brotherhood’d wipe things out with energy weaponry, not Assault Rifles.
The bugs happen in any new game for the most part.
The multiple endings adds to replay value. In Fallout 3 you couldn’t do everything. You couldn’t destroy AND save Megaton. I personally, had a good and evil character. In New Vegas, I have a Legionary, a NCR Soldier, a Brotherhood Paladin, and a Pacifist. It adds to making the player want to play again.
The one thing I will agree on though is the Speech. I preferred the Speech system in Fallout 3.
I totally agree with that! I like F:NV for its Hardcore mode and better companions but there are unforgivable flaws.
Radio stations is the biggest of them. Instead of charismatic Three Dog, wide variety of songs (I still remember all of them – they were simply too great!), Adventures of Herbert Daring Dashwood and his Argyle we have monotonous Mr New Vegas who can be barely heard, who is boring, who has nothing to say and who plays 3 or 5 songs all together (I’m sick of hearing the song about Johnny and his guitar for the 100th time).
And what about the quests? Remember finding a Stradivarius violin for Agatha? Remember Arefu? Tennpenny Tower and ghoul problem or Megaton? Of course there are some fine quests in F:NV but others are simply not worth doing. No story, do depth, no trouble.
At first when I started F:NV I thought the whole atmosphere was a bit mystical, a bit unexplained. There was something strange in the air… But soon it turned out to be another good and evil conflict only this time the good is not so good and the evil is not very evil. Great.
The more I play F:NV the more I want to go back to F3.
Some things you have sgot right.esp the bugs!!!
May add a few more…
I feel cheated,know why?
Fallout 3 was about the exploring and finding stuffs!!,whether it be in the scary Dunwhich building,nuka cola plant,raiders hideout,infact all the places where fantastic to go to
But fallout new vegas,Total crap!!
when you got to a place there was barely anything to it!, hardly enough to explore,(except some of the vaults)nothing worth picking up or checking out!
Hardly any vendors also
and never mind that crafting weapons crap!!
never bothered with it once!!
Although Fallout 3 whould have been better with the Iron sights,that was really good!
companions was far better too
No,Fallout newvegas was a huge disapointment for me!
Lazy Obsidian Bastards!!
I missed Megaton home too!
“OMG, too much reading.”
Look, you —– parochial little ——– This game was not made to “shoot things.” It’s an RPG. Role-Playing Game. I know, I know. You like to have your hand held through the entire experience. You hate dying in games. You hate having to make choices that have more than one outcome. You likely got a D in English class because you are a hopeless piece-of—–moron. Hell, in two years, you’ll probably vote for the Republican candidates because your Faux News Zombies of parents warn you about how they’re “Taking ur jerbs!”
This game has a soul. You missed it when you skipped all of the dialogue and invested in 4 weapon skills like a witless dolt. Listen.. do yourself a favor and play the game like it’s supposed to be played. It’s an interactive story. YOU – Yes, YOU – get to make the decisions that shape the world. Take your ADHD medication, throw away the guide and tune the — in. Pathetic.
Makagulfazel, or whatever your name is – being that you obviously have to hide behind a pseudonym and, hell, you don’t even have the courage of your convictions enough to provide an email address (which I otherwise would happily have replied directly to thus allowing me to take you on personally).
Let’s get a few things straight my friend.
Firstly let’s get one thing clear. Should you wish to disagree with any sentiments in a posting that’s fine by me and by my team – healthy discussion is positively promoted – but resort to making personal insults and you’ll have me to deal with.
Okay, here’s the rub. I accept criticisms, negative comments, I don’t, however, ever accept people coming on my site to insult my team and in this respect let me point out that whilst you feel able to insult one of my writers the fact that you had to hide behind a pseudonym and provide no mail address says volumes about you as a (lame) individual.
On the site you’ll find a contact form. Mail me directly via that, my friend, let me take you on personally if you’re man enough (no mail address indicates you’re not, right?).
Just to confirm. Negative comments are fine. Disagreeing with posts is fine. Hell, you have your opinions and we welcome discussion. Personally insulting any of my writers, however, will not be tolerated. The net is not an excuse for anything – if you spoke to me on the street like this I’d deal with you.
I’ll defend my team against personal insults as I know how hard they work to bring you content. If you cannot keep a civil tongue in your mouth, so to speak, move along, we don’t want you here.
Concerning the “OMG, too much reading” why don’t; you piss off to other sites who offer up a single sentence and call it a post? They crave for people like you – they are desperate for traffic.
Makagulfazel – I expect you mail to me direct via the contact form. Let’s deal with this man to man, unless, of course, you wish to hide (as you have done here).
I reiterate. I will not tolerate my writers getting personal abuse. Period. End of. Other sites might, but they don’t have the A1 team I do.
As I say, disagree all you like, that’s fine. Take exception, that’s fine. But personal abuse I won’t tolerate. I care for my team, more than that I respect them.
Don’t like my stance on this – move along. Simple as that.
Editor
Makagulfazel – look forward to your mail, stop hiding, let’s talk.
A pretty silly post, especially considering that the “downsides” are actually New Vegas’ strong sides.
1. Continuity issues: Given the fact that some of the original Fallout 2 and Van Buren developers worked on New Vegas, the continuity presented in New Vegas is the proper one. The Enclave was broken by the destruction of the Oil Rig and the collapse of Navarro. They can’t survive without a powerbase and their return in Fallout 3 was practically forced Deus Ex Machina.
2. Bugs: If you don’t remember, Fallout 3 was chock full of bugs. The game was almost unplayable at release for some folks and hammering on NV whilst letting Fo3 slide is hypocrisy.
3. “Forced” replay value: The game is an RPG, not a frictionless game like Fo3. The entire point of the game is that you have to make significant choices and commit yourself to a faction; breaking that and allowing to do missions for the NCR as a Legion slaver or help House as a Wild Card would be cheapening the gameplay experience.
And what’s wrong with not doing everything on the first playthrough in a role-playing game? That’d be a valid complaint about the GTA series – not so much about RPGs.
4. Lack of story? I’m sorry, did you forget about the ton of empty, useless locations in Fallout 3 that exist for dungeon crawling sake? New Vegas at least attempts to make every location matter and have at least some semblance of a backstory to it, rather than just be eye candy. The choices you make are also significant and impact the wastes. Saving/nuking Megaton was pointless, as your choice had no consequence for the rest of the game.
2. Three Dog was an immersion breaking factor. Really, who would care about a 19 year old looking for his daddy when there are tens of fathers dying in the wasteland every day? And how does he get that information? Doesn’t explain New Vegas either. Generally, a news anchor is a pretty poor substitute for the world reacting to your choices.
1. The game is a role-playing game and needs to be tailored for all character builds. It also creates consequences for your choices, so if you create a gunslinger with emphasis of guns and explosives and forgo speech, then why do you complain that the game treats your character as a guy who shoots first and doesn’t ask questions? Speech challenges ae there for diplomat builds – if you made a gunslinger, don’t try to be a diplomat and complain when you fail.
All of these points can be summed up thus: New Vegas is a roleplaying game and a sequel to Fallout 2. It’s not a spin-off shooter like Fallout 3.
First of all, sorry for any grammar mistake, I’m Italian.
Mr. Steve Andersen, sorry, but I think your article is just awful. It seems to me that your complaints stem from the fact that you think/expect that NV (that is an RPG) plays like FO3(which was an action-RPG, heavy on the former and light on the latter)coupled with a superficial analisys of the game.
6. Too many continuity issues.
If you don’t know the Fallout story you shouldn’t comment on it. For example is said IN-GAME that the Enclave on the west coast was killed, some members went into hiding within the NCR or moved to the east.
Also aliens are a terrible terrible idea that should never appear canonically in a Fallout game ever again, like the talking deathclaws.
5. Frequent bugs.
I half agree.
4. Forced replay value.
So in a game that was designed to be played multiple times having actual reasons to replay the game is a bad thing? What?
3. Relatively limited story.
“Where with Fallout 3, you’d find both a larger story and a whole array of little stories. Whether you’re trying to help the Brotherhood of Steel wipe out the Enclave or you’re just out to save Megaton from an atomic fireball, you had all manner of stories.”
This, compared to NV that has…a larger story and a whole array of little stories. Or -for example- the companions quests and the one in the UltraLuxe casino were just my immagination?
And places with no stories? Again, what? FO3 was full of those too. Explain to me the Abandoned Car Fort, for example.
2. Radio options fewer.
A game crippling flaw!
On the other hand the people in the streets comment way more your actions than in FO3. Try to kill Benny and take a walk in Freeside for example.
1. Increased emphasis on speech challenges.
It’s an RPG. The purpose of an RPG is to play a role. If you can become a jack-of-all-trades like in FO3 you aren’t playing a role anymore. Putting more emphasis on diplomacy gives a reason to play a diplomat.
You know, if you’re going to write something like this, you better think things through and know the source material.
I agree with what Magukaf.. Makagulfazel said, though not the delivery of it.
If you want to know about continuity issues I suggest you go play the first two games of the series, replay Fallout 3 – and then say that load of rubbish again.
I had more bugs with Fallout 3, the same bugs even, I’ve had a few CTD’s, but I’ve had that in almost every game I’ve played.
Forced replay value? Wow, you can’t help both the warring factions at the same time? And here I thought I could work for Al’Qaida AND be a marine in the US Armed forces.
If anything, you should be thankful they actually have well thought out factions to choose from.
Point number 3 is featured in the game, all you had to do was walk through the canyon to Bitter Springs and talk to the commander there, help her and pay attention. You would’ve been able to find that out yourself – don’t blame the game for your lack of attention!
Number 2; Your character is’nt the center of the world – you’re a relatively unknown courier. You were contracted by the NCR to wipe out Nelson, ofcourse the bloody NCR is going to take credit for it. It’s believable.
My, imagine that someone that wants to play a smooth talker or puts points in other skills than you can get a different experience than you, or even possibly get some bonuses for choosing a non-combat-skill and raise it’s values high!
Andrew Tingle; Nice of you to defend your writers, but you really should check up on what they are actually doing. I don’t mind people writing their opinions, but when their facts are wrong they stand out as idiots.
1. On noez the enclave is gone!1!!
because every fallout should be like STAR WARS – BoS Jedi Knights v The Enclave empire. Nigga plz
2. Bugs – Because when Bethsoft made fallout ther weren’t any…Great journalism…
3. Forced Replay value – yeah beacuse it would be great if you could be in caesars legion and ncr at once. And in Enclace and BoS. Damn you OBSIDIAN!!!1
4. Ltd story – you, sir are very limited.
5. Fewer radio options – lol I can’t understand why this would pass to you as reason on that list and why is it above story/bugs/replay issues is a million cap question????
6. “I’m dumb and inarticulate so why I can’t outalk smarter NPC???” – yes clearly the game sucks.
you sir are a true pearl amidst the journalism…
^^^^^Hey zooty, stop posting. Thanks.
New Vegas is being compared to Fallout 3, not any of the earlier games, hence the comment about continuity is entirely valid – continuity between the two games. Simple.
Also, the story in NV is forgettable compared to FO3. I know, I know, the ‘writing’ (i.e dialogue) is better in NV 90% of the time. The only problem is that the plot was muddled and confusing and not very exciting at all. There are only about 4 interesting vignette stories in the whole game.
The radio thing also makes sense: I don’t care how realistic it is that the player is inconsequential to Mr New Vegas, the treatment of the news announcements is insultingly shallow and just plain boring.
The bugs in NV are insidious: broken quest lines, characters disappearing, impossible-to-complete tasks. It’s not all about CTDs y’know…
As for forced replay value, I can kinda see both sides’ point. True, it’s the nature of the genre to prohibit actions based on previous decisions. But to me, starting a new character is an incredible grind. Even building a character completely differently I just can’t muster the enthusiasm to do all that work again.
I’m not trying to troll, and I do love NV. I just think that some of these comments are a little defensive. Are any of you NMA posters by any chance ;)
I reread my reply this morning and felt absolutely terrible. It’s like I burst into my neighbor’s house and started cursing at his kid because I picked up his literature paper and was infuriated by his ignorance of Shakespearean lore. Instead of wisely investing his time and analyzing the source material effectively, he drew a bunch of guns and penises on the back of the paper and still tried to turn it in for a passable grade. Regardless, typing censored out derogatory terms to a child is pretty immature. I am sorry.
You see, when I was a child, I was gifted Fallout. My parents were pretty cool – they let me play mature rated games also. I had played the demo from one of my dad’s maximum CD disks. My world was blown apart. Here I was, in the Junktown setting, able to choose multiple routes to finish the demo. The same kind of freedom held true for much of the game and carried on to Fallout 2. Hell, I had to look up words in the dictionary to get a better grasp of some of the dialogue(Did parochial get cha’?). I was around 12 years old at the time.
BIS was shut down later. Interplay fumbled around with the license for a while and ended up selling it to Bethesda. When Fallout 3 came out, I actually enjoyed it. It had done away with the stupid Elder Scrolls wikipedia-esque dialogue system. There was a little extra choice and consequence then in the Elder Scrolls series. Unfortunately, the endgame boiled down to a last minute decisions that didn’t reflect how you interacted with the world. It was shallow. Yet, I keep seeing these scarce “journalists” drone on about how Fallout 3′s story was so gripping. These are the same people that have questions such as, “I can’t play after I complete the main quest?” “Can’t I just shoot things?” “Which objective do I complete? I’m stuck. I didn’t pay attention to the dialogue.”
Now we have New Vegas. Crafted using Bethesda’s engine but with the hands of several ex-BIS employees. Although it’s the minority thankfully, there are people defending Fallout 3 like it’s the bastion of the series. Listen – you still get to mindlessly kill stuff in New Vegas – that seems to be your thing. So, you might break a few quests – It’s call consequence. There is only one essential NPC, so what’s the beef? So, Three-Dog isn’t obsessed about your exploits, somehow getting news when there’s a super mutant army patrolling his news station. So, the bugs are still evident with BETHESDA’S engine(How many patches did F3 have? Hmm). So, you have to build a new character instead of going around on normal difficulty blowing everything away with your level 30 to get the multiple outcomes. These are things you are supposed to welcome. You know what is a “grind”? Killing the same challenge-free opponents over and over again in copy-pasted locations. New Vegas is more dense, better balanced, has better FPS mechanics and on top of it all has a phenomenally better story and dialogue. I’m just warning you – your opinion sucks.
Now go watch a Coen Brother’s movie or something. Look up moral ambiguity. Do something other than truly “grind” your way through gaming. Challenges are good – maybe you’ll understand this when you grow up.
Oh, and look, you get rid of the less confrontational peoples’ responses who disagree with the author – great “disagree all you like, that’s fine” policy.
Well color me stunned. A dozen comments in four days. Boy, where to begin?
First off, FurQ, you’ve got the right of it, really. It’s a comparison between three and new vegas. Any details pulled in from other installments of the franchise are for detail purposes only.
Zooty–please read the article again, and this time with a focus on comprehension. I acknowledge there were bugs in Fallout 3, but I never had my save games eaten in Fallout 3. I never lost companions. I seldom fell through solid surfaces into gaming oblivion. I certainly didn’t have my most recent issue in which I played all the way through to Nipton in a new game from level one, and STAYED level one despite the fact my XP meter read 1197 / 200.
Patric–In Fallout 3, I could play most every mission on the same character. I’ve played it enough to know that much. Sure, I’d have to start over to play the missions DIFFERENTLY–I can’t set Bob the tree on fire and then use him to green up the Capitol Wasteland–but I at least got to try. Fallout 3 gave a more natural replay value, at least for me, by not cutting off quests but rather giving me the option to try the same quests a different way, with different results. I got some of that in Fallout New Vegas too (the BoS bunker, for example) but the difference is substantial.
Stefano–first, your English is much better than my Italian. That being said, I’ll follow up. I’ve actually already covered much of what you said, though you do have a point about things like the abandoned car fort. Though even the abandoned car fort had ammo cans in it–I’ve seen places in New Vegas that have nothing more than a bottle of Nuka-Cola but are still somehow worthy of map placement. And I don’t know how you “half agree” on the numerous and excessively well-documented bugs that have been listed unless you’re “half delusional”.
Tagaziel–you do not get to disregard the portions of the canon you disapprove of. I’m sorry, but that’s just not how it works. Fallout 3 is canon, there’s a substantial portion of both BoS and Enclave forces running around the Capitol Wasteland (not so much Enclave any more, but still) and as such I damned well expected New Vegas to follow its own plot and rules as established by all the previous. Though you are right that there was a text placard inserted in game (I hadn’t actually seen that one until after I wrote this–you didn’t think I stopped playing, did you?) describing the fate of the Enclave, though that still doesn’t account for the Capitol Wasteland Enclave. And frankly, it’s a weak explanation anyway–the Enclave remnants were ABSORBED into the NCR? Even President Eden would’ve had a problem with that and he’s a buggy computer program! And even those “dungeon crawling” locales had a purpose–consider the Dunwich Building. Even without the Krivbekneh, it was still a creepy and atmospheric structure with a guy in the basement and a ton of ghouls. Finding the guy in the basement’s notes only adds to the creepy. And on the news: both Caesar’s Legion and the NCR had sufficient spy power to know I was working for Mr. House when the game made it clear no one but me had been in the Lucky 38 for years. The place is surrounded by Securitrons and I’m on the penthouse floor, but somehow, they knew about a conversation that took place between me and a computer screen. Unless Mr. House speaks in volumes of about two hundred decibels, or routes all his conversations to external loudspeakers, I can’t imagine how anyone knew. And Mr. New Vegas can’t know I was the one who took back Nelson? Substantial logic error, anyone?
Makagulfazel–did you just TL:DR on a gadget blog? You do know the point of this is to read about stuff, right? Reading requires words. Even my D in English taught me that much. Anyway, I hate having choices precluded for me. I hate having to roll up a new character and grind my way through levels just to check out a few minutes of new plotline. I also hate–reading comments–with–excessive amounts–of–dashes.
Everybody else, great mix of comments here, I knew this was going to get people talking, though this was a bit of a surprise.
*sigh*
It was in quotes – I was mimicing what you thought about the expanded use of the speech skill in the game. I read the entire article, hence my anger with your trivial whinefest. Whatever. No more ad revenue from me. I will no longer be checking responses.
Thanks for fortifying the devolution of games with your provincial opinions. Have fun looking at nude models with your level 30 character. Me? I’ll be enjoying the hell out of my UNIQUE second ending.
6. Too many continuity issues.
To be honest, I started the series with FO3 but I couldn’t give a fig for continuity between games. To me it’s a non-issue but I agree that a romp to Area 51 would have been very cool.
5. Frequent bugs.
Existed in both games at launch.
4. Forced replay value.
To me this is a feature rather than a flaw.
3. Relatively limited story.
My impression is that both games have an equal amount of story once you factor in the replay value from being able to choose between 4 different factions.
2. Radio options fewer.
I rarely listen to the radio when I play so again this is a non-issue to me.
1. Increased emphasis on speech challenges.
I have to agree with the rest of the commenters that this is a role playing game and speech challenges are key in playing a role.
All in all, while FNV has its problems, I have to seriously disagree with the vast majority of your article.
“In Fallout 3, I could play most every mission on the same character.[...]Fallout 3 gave a more natural replay value, at least for me”
Subjective. There’s people loving NV for its structure and people that hate FO3 for its simplicistic structure where a character can do everything.
Something like this shouldn’t appear in a list like this, that *should* be about objective flaws.
“Though even the abandoned car fort had ammo cans in it–I’ve seen places in New Vegas that have nothing more than a bottle of Nuka-Cola but are still somehow worthy of map placement.”
Sure. But on the other hand (again) in NV there are way more settlements with people and quests waiting for you.
“And I don’t know how you “half agree” on the numerous and excessively well-documented bugs that have been listed unless you’re “half delusional”.”
What I mean is that while NV is quite buggy FO3 was only slightly more stable. SAying that FO3 is better because of that is like saying that a punch in the face is better than a kick in the nuts.
“Fallout 3 is canon, there’s a substantial portion of both BoS and Enclave forces running around the Capitol Wasteland (not so much Enclave any more, but still) and as such I damned well expected New Vegas to follow its own plot and rules as established by all the previous.”
Waitwaitwait. Rules? Since the BoS and the Enclave where major parties in FO3 then all the sequel HAVE to include them the same way regardless of story and setting?
Also, you didn’t pay attention to the FO3 story. Why the east BoS is full of soldiers? Because they broke the code and recruited natives, a thing that the original BoS disapproves of. And therefore, logically, in NV we see the BoS as it originally is, reduced to small numbers.
Why is the Enclave on the east coast? Because after the destruction of the oil rig and Navarro they regrouped and moved to Raven Rock. And of course that means that in the west there’s no Enclave anymore.
This is all stuff explained in-game in FO3.
“Though you are right that there was a text placard inserted in game[...]And frankly, it’s a weak explanation anyway–the Enclave remnants were ABSORBED into the NCR?”
There are more details in a quest that you obviously didn’t do.
“both Caesar’s Legion and the NCR had sufficient spy power to know I was working for Mr. House when the game made it clear no one but me had been in the Lucky 38 for years. The place is surrounded by Securitrons and I’m on the penthouse floor, but somehow, they knew about a conversation that took place between me and a computer screen.”
Because of course the first person seen entering the Lucky 38 in 200 years was just a guest invited for a drink.
You know, I was re-reading the article and I found this.
“And where was the Enclave? For crying out loud, the Enclave is one state away! How is it NOT interfering? Surely the Enclave didn’t lose sufficient forces in the oil rig disaster to not have a presence left in California! Surely everybody didn’t pack up for the Capitol Wasteland!”
Well, it’s exactly like that, instead. :D
Also, on Point 1. In FO3 locks and terminals were everywhere so only a fool wouldn’t have raised at least a bit the relative skills. NV added Speech to the list of Skills-You-Should-Seriously-Consider-To-Raise but now suddenly it’s a problem? Why? It’s because the game isn’t throwing Skill Points at you at every step so you can’t become (at least not immediately) a master of everything?
Guys, guys, guys…come on.
Oblivion is better than both of them so what the hell are we fighting about?
Wow look NO pseudonym lol.First off NV can only be compared to 3 on one count only and thats the engine full stop.Continuity issues what!!!! it was fallout 3 that broke the canon for crying out loud.how the hell did the enclave get vertibirds across from the west coast when they barely had enough fuel to get from the oil rig to the mainland,they were mostly destroyed by the chosen one at the end of fallout 2!FOLLOW THE CANON ,THE HISTORY of fallout, the super mutants in the mojave are the remnants of the masters army,the master is no more(or is he? watch this space) they are scattered so your fun time killing them is up, go and take on Tabby and her crew.The enemies are tougher ,nastier and more relentless AND varied than f3,not enough of them GO into the mountains on hardcore mode and take on a swarm of cazdores and see what happens go and find the unmarked site for the remnant power armor and kill all those deathclaws.this is not a shooter its an rpg play how you want hell just level up and explore and gather an arsenal dont follow any factions or the story and kill caesar kill all ncr kill everyone,hook up with the powder gangers then find cooke and live with them.Fallout 3 is a great game but only lookout,pitt and steel where any use.zeta was fun but way out there for fallout and game breaking.Exploring and finding new stuff all the time time is what made 3 so great.The storyline sucked tbh.F3=main quest water purifier! NV=clean water up and running from the dam and lake mead.New vegas is a more living world but yet more hostile.More quests, more stuff to do,weapon mods are must and hardcore mode only really comes into play with the regen healing stims in heavy combat situations(walk backwards lol).Both great games but New Vegas takes it with 60 hours first play solo ending and half achieves on 360 and about one third of the game seen.F3 comes second at 170+ hours and 100% of the game seen including all dlc.
Stefano–good point, though I do still find the logic there a bit shaky. What, the entire Enclave was on the oil rig? A group that outfits its troops almost exclusively in powered armor and loads them all with plasma gear, plus could send a detachment across what’s left of the United States to build Raven Rock has to be a bit larger than can fit comfortably on a floating oil derrick, wouldn’t you say? And what got me was that New Vegas puts a lot more emphasis on the speech challenges, something three did not. I had no reason to improve my speech challenges before, now suddenly I should know I’d have to to get anywhere?
And Alan–please note that I do say, at least twice, that Fallout New Vegas IS a great game. The list above is for reasons why Fallout 3 was better; not for why New Vegas isn’t good. And I’ve found the Remnant bunker already–just need to get Arcade Gannon (who names their kid Arcade?) to tag along on my next run out.
Agree with the article whole-heartedly.
I have to say that, while I enjoyed Fallout NV and found it worthwhile (I invested 80 hours in it and beat it using the NCR and YesMan endings), it did not grab me like Fallout 3 did. I didn’t find NV at all immersive. It had no grit. In my mind, Fallout NV took the apocalypse out of the post-apocalyptic world. Whereas the ruins af Washington were gritty and dark, NV has a little too much silliness for my taste (and I didn’t even do wild wasteland). Perhaps this is truer to the first two fallouts. Dunno. Didn’t play them and if NV harkens back to them, I probably never will.
The factions, while perhaps interesting in concept, were not well executed in my mind. There were too many, juxtaposed in too-tight quarters. That the BOS were ‘hiding’ in a bunker that was a five minute walk from everywhere else of note did not really make sense. And, yes, for all that there were numerous locations or factions, these invariably lacked much depth. The vaults were smaller. The buildings were smaller. The strip was also smaller. There were very few of the dark tunnels where I would leap out of my chair when a ghoul or a raider jumped out. Even Caesar’s camp was small. On a whim, I snuck in with a sniper rifle and a few stealth boys and dispatched everyone – including Caesar – with ease. ???? I thought it would be a suicide run, but….. Similarly, I was able to stealth my way into the BOS camp and blow it up without the slightest challenge. The nightkin camp was also way too easy. If they were that feeble, why were they broadcasting their location???? The Khans had this huge camp, with nothing going on. Pointless.
With NV, I was very excited about hardcore mode. Unfotunately, it just wasn’t that much challenging. I could still carry absurd amounts of everything and had two pack Brahmin (companions) that I could load up. I barely needed to sleep and there was so much food and water that I never needed to use my survival skills (a bad investment, btw). Too, ammo was sufficiently plentiful that I never had to craft a thing. Perhaps some of the mods I have seen would address this. But, I have to admit that I don’t have a burning desire to play the game again to find out.
I also agree about the radio. Wayne was uninspiring and the limited rotation of tunes / commentary had me turn it off in a jiffy. I did like the Ultobitha (sp?) radio, however.
Finally, I didn’t really like the companions. Boone was OK, but the other character stories (where they exisisted) didn’t pull me in. Then, there was the companion AI…. I really hated that companions ran amok despite being told to sit still. Not much fun for a stealth player…. Even when I told them to wait somewhere, they came and engaged in a fight that I purposefully left them out of. Cazadors made short work of them every time!!! And the Eyebot would never follow correctly and would disappear all the time. This was especially grating as I had to spend half the game looking to see if it was following and then finding that I had to reset back to ten minutes earlier because it had simply disappeared….
In all, a 6-7 out of 10. Worth it, but not worth the wait.
“What, the entire Enclave was on the oil rig?”
The oil rig, Navarro and a number of small outpost. That’s what FO2 said and FO3 didn’t change.
It is logical to assume that it was no ordinary derrick, but rather, a disguised, powerful military base with heavy industrial facilities, top notch medical technology, completely self-sufficient, able to provide the Enclave with a highly efficient power base.
“plus could send a detachment across what’s left of the United States to build Raven Rock”
Raven Rock was a pre-war military base.
“And what got me was that New Vegas puts a lot more emphasis on the speech challenges, something three did not. I had no reason to improve my speech challenges before, now suddenly I should know I’d have to to get anywhere?”
So every FO3 sequel should always focus on Guns, Repair and Lockpick, basically. Tell me Mr. Andersen, did you find out that Speech is so important in NV when you hit the level cap? I’m sorry but I doubt it. So the question is: why didn’t you raise it? The most logical answer is that you don’t care about Speech, then why are you complaining?
“And Alan–please note that I do say, at least twice, that Fallout New Vegas IS a great game. The list above is for reasons why Fallout 3 was better; not for why New Vegas isn’t good.”
You know what’s another thing that bugs me regarding this list? Saying that this six not-exactly-groundbreaking flaws (nevermind that most of them aren’t actually flaws) are enough to put the game below FO3 implies that on the whole NV isn’t that much better compared to its predecessor, which is wrong on so many levels.
So having a fixed SPECIAL, a VATS that isn’t broken anymore, more balanced skills, better dialogues, better characters, a polished battle system and the addition of iron sights (among other things) aren’t enough to balance things like the absence of a good DJ.
Sean–you’re not alone with ED-E problems. I actually left it parked back in Primm, and the next thing I know I’m going into the radioactive Vault to help out the NCR sharecroppers, I go down a level into the basement to start breaking open computers, and next thing I know there’s this beeping sound. Somehow ED-E followed me of its own volition to the Vault, and then followed me downstairs.
Steve:
The Enclave didn’t travel to DC until after their base of operations/headquarters, the Oil Rig, was destroyed. They didn’t send a detachment to DC, the majority of the organization, now relegated to a number of small outposts and Navarro, moved to the East Coast. After the move, Navarro was conquered by the NCR, scattering what remained of the Enclave.
Of course you would know all of this if you bothered to do any research (two minutes on the Vault) for your article.
Speaking of which, the greatest failures of your article stem from two things: double standards and a general lack of research. Fallout 3 has more continuity issues than you can shake a stick at with the three major organizations in the game being the biggest problems. The Enclave was really in no position to travel across the entire United States after having their headquarters, along with much of their equipment (including the majority of their Vertibird fleet), destroyed.
The Brotherhood of Steel was an insular, xenophobic, technology worshiping organization that wouldn’t risk the resources required to travel across the entire USA, let alone trust the mission to a paladin who doesn’t have much respect for their values. Bethesda, wanting white knights of the wasteland, decided that it would be best to completely change the motivation of the organization in order to present an unambiguously good organization to counter their two unambiguously evil organizations.
Finally there are the super mutants and the FEV which created them. The presence of FEV on the East Coast is pretty sketchy, especially in a Vault-Tec facility (FEV was developed by West Tek). FEV was then changed in order to make almost all subjects into mindlessly violent ogres.
Of course there are numerous other continuity issues (Ghouls, specifically Glowing Ones, in particular) but I have no desire to list them all. But of course none of that matters since you are judging New Vegas versus Fallout 3 in a vacuum, ignoring all previous installments. That’s bogus and a cheap cover up for your lack of research.
Another double standard was your coverage of bugs, many of which were simply carried over from Fallout 3 and a full list of Fallout 3′s bugs can be found on the Vault. New Vegas might be more buggy but the perception is certainly out there due to the bugs actually getting reported on major gaming media sites this time around. What will be most interesting to observe is how many of those bugs are addressed by Obsidian as Bethesda tends to be fickle about patches.
As for the relatively limited story, Fallout 3 was certainly no better in that respect and the example which you cited happens to be the location where a companion (Craig Boone) quest takes place. I will give you credit for checking the wiki on this but you should have also searched through a walkthrough.
Cheers,
~Garlic
I couldn’t disagree more with this article.
6. Continuity problems? Familiarize yourself with the series’s lore and those will go away. Aliens have always been Easter eggs in the Fallout series until Fallout 3. You know how FO3 avoids continuity problems? By not having any continuity. The entire game is made up of dots of disconnected content. The factions and settlements are barely aware of each other. Where do they get their food? How do they defend themselves? Why to they exist and where did they come from? Yeah, FO3 doesn’t even try to answer any of these questions. They can’t get it wrong because they just don’t do it.
4. Force replay value? This is worse than Fallout 3′s “no replay value” how? Are you honestly saying that the ability to choose your allegiance and choose to complete quests in different ways is bad? FO3 is almost completely static and linear!! What are you talking about!?!?!?
3. Limited story? Fallout 3 had a short and artificially epic story like a bad sci-fi film. Again, look at the entire rest of the series outside of Fallout 3 and you’ll see that Fallout stories are in player interactions, characters, faction interaction, and other details. Fallout 3 had none of these details…just a face-value story that feels like it was written by a 14 year old as a summer action film. The level of detail in NV’s storied puts the entirety of the writing in FO3 to shame.
2. Radio? I’ll admit that JH Eden was awesome, but Three Dog was incredibly obnoxious and unfunny. Fewer options? I’m counting the same number of stations and more dialog in NV…how is that somehow less than FO3?
Let’s not forget about how the RPG mechanics and economies have been fixed so that they actually matter now among a myriad other improvements. Did the author of this “article” even play New Vegas for more than an hour?
Personally, I think NV is better than FO3. But I think fallout 3 had a better storyline. A kid who left his safe life in the vault to find his father who wanted to purify water to help everyone? Then your father dies and you have to carry out his legacy by helping the bos defeat and retake your fathers work? Fantastic story and fantastic game. Nv isn’t supposed to be related to Fallout3 so I don’t even see how you could complain about the bos. They’re still there! Overall, both games have their ups and downs, but Nv has a more realstic experience to it. Sorry if I made any mistakes and didn’t make a very compelling point.
6. Too many continuity issues.
Where? NV stayed pretty true Fallout lore, unlike Fallout “3″.
4. Forced replay value.
Since when was replayability, numerous outcomes and factions a bad thing?
2. Radio options fewer.
While I agree with this, I find Mr. New Vegas a lot better than that annoying prick known as Three Dog.
1. Increased emphasis on speech challenges.
You know, this wasn’t supposed to be a FPS.
Fallout vegas left me highly disapointed i expected fallout 3 with better graphics instead they tried to reinvent the game system
i disliked the fact that i get a perk every second level i disliked the fact that you dont grow up in a vault
i disliked the fact the speach system got messed up i disliked the radio system they should have had more songs and a decent dj
i especially hated the fact that you didnt play as the lone wanderer from vault 101 i mean comon how hard is it to say that 101 travelled to vegas from the dc ruins
well thats how i feel i give fallout vegas a 6 out of 10 its a mediocre game at best nothing like the game that came before it
I think after reading all of this I have come to the conclusion that FO3 is a different bag of tricks to NV. The differences maybe good and bad but they are there none the less (iron sights, heavy on speech etc), people tend to take different things from games like these (one man’s grind is another man’s completion RE Makagulfazel) I am half way through NV and have deliberately avoided the main strip, this is due to me having a ‘saving physiology’ and not wanting to see the jewel in the NV crown too early, that would never of happened in FO3, it was a struggle to get anywhere, and getting there felt like a big accomplishment (first journey to Rivett city). I think we have to ask ourselves this, if NV was the first in the oblivion with guns games, would we look at FO3 as an improvement, I don’t think we would?
PS I still miss shooting the enclave
I am baffled that so many simple minded fools think FO3 is actually BETTER then FO:NV. New Vegas is better in almost every way, Fallout 3 was a bland, barren wasteland with no kind of interaction. Bethesda turned Fallout 3 into a shooter, and that was the biggest mistake they could have made. Wanna know why? Because now you have all these FPS players who dont know how to use their brains when they play a video game JUDGING this game negatively and giving it bad reviews because of the forced dialog and not enough shooting. Seriously, because of you people New Vegas will probably be the last GOOD FALLOUT GAME (Fallout 3 was a good game but it was NOT a Fallout game).
Here are several BIG reasons why FO3 is better than NV.
1) They took out the homemade weapons. I expected even more in this game, and instead they are almost non existent, all the parts to make them are still lying around, but now they serve no purpose. Why bother? I want my railroad gun!
2) Reloading. It’s pointless.
3) The map is smaller, and more sparsely populated, with large sections inaccessible.
4) invisible walls in the terrain that force you to go a certain way.
4) A large number of the locations on the map serve no purpose. I’m tired of finding an empty camp with one ammo can containing ten rounds of 9mm and a star cap lying on a table. Or how about going into a cave killing a couple of geckos, or viper gunslingers, and finding NOTHING else there.
How about the airport south of searchlight, there’s pretty much nothing to do there.
5) Broken quest after broken quest.
6) I’ve no problem talking my way out of things instead of shooting, but too many quests rely purely on having a high speech skill
Things I like.
1) The companions and their perks.
2) Customizable weapons
3) the variety of things you can make at the
workbenches
“1) They took out the homemade weapons.[...]all the parts to make them are still lying around, but now they serve no purpose.”
They are used to craft other items.
“2) Reloading. It’s pointless. ”
Some weapons have scarce ammo. You can make more powerful ammo. Disassembled rounds have no weight.
“3) The map is smaller”
False. The number of quadrants is the same. Don’t compare just the shape of the map.
“4) invisible walls in the terrain that force you to go a certain way.”
This compared to FO3 debris that couldn’t be passed (even if it looked like you could) and forced the player to do countless dungeon crawls?
“4) A large number of the locations on the map serve no purpose.”
Two number 4…?
FO3 had even more locations that served no purpose. The only difference is that there was more loot to grab and more enemies to shoot. How many raider/SMs/Talon mercs camps there were? How many metro there were? How many Power Stations? And so on.
“6) I’ve no problem talking my way out of things instead of shooting, but too many quests rely purely on having a high speech skill”
There are a lot of quests where the only solution is shoot, and a lot of quests where you can talk OR shoot.
Great article! When will you be posting the ‘The top 100 reasons why Fallout New Vegas is far better than Fallout 3′ article?
Just about everything you mentioned is a positive change.
The only problem with New Vegas is the bugs, and you can get around those easy enough if you’re playing the PC version.
I dont know if I want to laugh or cry
uh sorry but your points are retarded
fallout 3 was nothing more then a shitty spin-off, it shouldnt even be considered cannon and I highly doubt it actually is.
So lets see, fallout 3, a game with whats probably the shittiest and most uninsteresting story in the history of RPG’s, shittiest dialogue ive ever seen in any form of entertainment, horrendous gameplay, overexagerated “50′s stuck in the future” (**** you bethesda, cultural stagnation not technological, get your **** straight) , ****** atmosphere and a randomly generated world with 500000 copy pasted train tunnels is better then new vegas ? better then something that might actually be one of the only good RPG’s to come for years ?
sorry but you should go back to playing call of duty and halo
This entire article is silly. You should feel terrible for publishing it.
This article is what’s wrong with Gaming development today. They cater to idiots like this.
Point by point:
6. I want rehashes.
5. I wont remember if you release a game in unplayable conditions as long as it works by the game of the year / gold editions.
4. I don’t want consequences for my actions.
3. I’m not going to pay attention so why bother with nuance?
2. Who cares about good voice acting. Also everything has to be about MEEEEE.
1. I don’t want to roleplay. I just want to tell people I roleplay so I can be considered a hardcore gamer.
This is a poorly done article.
For one thing it is inaccurate… the place mentioned as being useless is involved in the Boone quest and the info on the first two games is incorrect.
Second to that though, the article is written in a way that basically is mad at the game for not being an FPS, which is silly. New Vegas is a roleplaying game, an RPG. It has shooting as its combat method, yes, but the factions, the dialogue, the multiple playthroughs… these are all RPG elements because it is an RPG, and they are GOOD things.
I’m absolutely baffled at what a poor statement this article is. It basically denounces all the reasons people play RPGs and disregards all the work Obsidian did to make the game more of an RPG. If you just want an open world shooter play Farcry 2 for God’s sake, don’t take the RPG out of a classic RPG series!
Very disappointed in the press this will no doubt get. Shame.
I disagree.
The deception of the BoS and Enclave is completely consistent with the first two Fallout games. Fallout 3 was the one that was inconstant.
The Brotherhood was always a bunch of xenophobic isolationist. It was never the Paladin group Fallout 3 (And Tactics, but at least Tactics has the excuse of doing it for manpower) pulls out of… nowhere. The Vault Dweller only joins by successfully beating a snipe hunt intended to get him killed. The Chosen One was only helped by the Brotherhood to damn the Enclave and keep advanced technology out of their hands.
The Enclave WAS the Oil Rig, with minimal forces at Navarro and other land bases which the NCR invaded after the story (And were primarily for refueling anyways). There was no other forces to NOT lose.
2: Not doing everything in one go is a benefit. It is not only logical for other factions to not want to work with you if you are allied with their enemy. Additionally, NV is the kind of game that is meant to be replayed. Why is the point of any choice if not to make replays fun? Why is not being restricted to one play a good thing?
I disagree with this article, it’s like the world has turned upside down. I even feel a bit angry, in a nerdy kind of way ;)
Continuity issues: Fallout 3 is not the first game in the series, it’s the third. and it completely raped the lore, setting, and continuity, in a way that is almost unheard of in game sequels (not counting reboots). Fallout NV is more in line with the first games, and have no serious continuity issues at all (not even with F3).
Bugs: I agree. Fallout 3 was a complete trainwreck, and Fallout NV is a slightly worse trainwreck.
Forced replay value: You can’t see everything on your first playthrough, because your choices have consequences. This is one of the biggest improvements from F3. I’m genuinely surprised that you can list this as a negative.
limited story: Maybe we played different games ;) . I don’t know what to say really, but of course, if you like a story or not is very subjective. and my opinion is that F3 delivered a bad and boring story in such a bad way, that no story at all had been better.
The story, and the way it was delivered, was the biggest problem I had with F3. I didn’t care about anything that happened in the game, or about any characters, because it all felt so completely fake and amateurish. Fallout NV improved on this a lot IMO.
Radio options fewer: Maybe true, but I didn’t notice, and consider it a non-issue.
Speece skill more important compared to F3: I consider this an improvement. and it’s not any more essential than what science or lockpicking were in F3. And, like someone pointed out, after just a few minutes, you will realize that speece is important, and have the option to put points in it if you want those options available to you.
Other improvements in Fallout NV :
Better balanced skills
Many many more and better quests with more options.
World and characters are more alive and believable
Everything makes more sense, and places have more connection to each other.
Much better writing.
Better shooting mechanics.
World is not completely overpopulated with monsters everywhere, and feels more realistic and less “grindy”.
You don’t get overpowered too quickly.
“Awesome loot” isn’t everywhere and it actually feels special when you find something good.
I could go on, but my nerd-rage has settled a bit, and I have wasted too much time because “someone on the internet is wrong” ;)
6. They went over this in the game, so clearly this guy didn’t actually play much of it. You also never played one or two I’ll take it?
5. We know, and thanks for the godawful attempt at humor with the picture.
4. “dur hur I can’t do anything in playthrough wat is dis!!! im goin back to dragon age”…Its called replay value, your probably the same idiot that wishes he could still max out all of his skills.
3: Complete falsehood…
2: His example is stupid (MNV does mention Nelson) but his point is otherwise valid…to a certain extent.
1: Hugely story-based game. You know, those things where dialogue is kind of important? You can shoot your way through most situations. again, did you really play the game, or just watch some YouTube videos?
Fallout 3′s writing is amazing.. These two examples are especially stunning.
[Speech] Yo eden, this had gone to far, it has too stop..
Yes, you are right, you make one hell of an argument * terminates himself *
Next awesome piece of writing:
So. I got two choices. Go into the highly radioactive chamber and sacrifice myself, or sacrifice the BoS officer..
Hey wait! don’t I have a companion character standing next to me who happens to be immune to radiation(Fawkes), Let me go talk to him, he’ll take care of this and nobody has to die.
Fawkes: “No, this is your destiny blablabla, and I won’t do it even though I offered to go into another radioactive champer just 30minutes earlier in the story kthx sucker”
My God, it was painful to read.
“Forced replay value” – it’s an RPG, dude. You make choices, you suffer the consequences. Wanna help the Legion out? Well then, don’t expect the NCR to tolerate your presence much – and vice versa. It’s about role-playing, not minmaxing & getting MOAR XPERIENCE POINTZ.
“Relatively limited story.”
I’d choose a somewhat “limited” story over a bad one (FO3) anytime.
As for the “pointless” locations, you often get plenty of clues as to what happened in those places – you just need to use your brain a bit. If you can’t, that’s not the game’s fault.
“Increased emphasis on speech challenges.”
If skillchecks wouldn’t matter then what’d be the point of having skills? Seriously…
There is only one healthy reaction to what New Vegas has done.
THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!
oh wow this article is so awful and wrong on so many levels…
I am actually starting to think Mr. Anderson here is trolling because it’s hard to believe that any normal person would think that choices and consequences for your decisions (I’m talking about his 4th argument) in a freaking RPG game is a bad thing. I also find it hard to believe that any normal person would complain about having heavy emphasis on speech skill in an RPG game. I hope you know that you don’t really have to use speech in NV right? You know that there isn’t a single quest in NV that can’t be completed without a speech skill? Heavier emphasis on speech just gives you one more way to solve quests. How can that be a bad thing?
Yes and don’t get me started on Fallout 3 lore and how Bethesda raped (and when I say raped I am saying gangbanged my 20 men) the original Fallout lore. Enclave on the East Coast when the whole enclave base was destroyed in F2? Brotherhood of Steel that protects the innocent inhabitants of the Capital Wasteland from evil Super Mutants? What the f**k? I mean – come on Steve you could have read that in like 10 minutes from the Vault or wikipedia.
Anyway…all I wanted to say is that I am 60% sure that this dude is trolling. If he’s serious then…wow…that’s just on another level of awful.
So, with the exception of #2 and #5, your basic complaint is that New Vegas is more of an RPG than Fallout 3. Ok…
I’m beginning to think this article isn’t serious at all, but just an attempt to start some kind of debate. Ok , i fell for it, but I don’t believe in it anymore. If I’m right, and this isn’t the authors true opinions, I have to say it was some very successful trolling :).
This list honestly just sounds like a laundry list of complaints from someone who either
1. Didn’t spend a lot of time playing this
2. Does not enjoy RPG’s or this game in particular
The only one of these reasons that has some merit is the bug issue, in my opinion of course, your free to believe that a lack of radio stations in New Vegas is a “reason” that Fall out 3 is superior to New Vegas
#6 there is more to the universe of fallout than just Fallout 3 and New Vegas, this should have been apparent immediately, if you feel so inclined you should play the other games or read up on about the game’s canon
#5 Although I have to agree you can never get a game 100% bug free and Fallout 3 and New Vegas are buggier than most games because of the tools they use to make the game. I don’t recall the exact name but there was one in particular used to generate the landscapes of the game that is mentioned a lot.
#4 This is true in most if not all RPG’s, maybe you don’t like RPGs?
#3 This is just plain ignorance, the fallout universe is massive and full of story, if you take the time to read about it or play in it, and a lack of locations would make even less sense, there should be particular notable areas even if they don’t contribute materially to your gameplay they add more depth to the game’s universe
#2 This reason is really a stretch, in light of other reasons that could be brought up, the radio’s certainly are not enough of a problem to rank in at number two, but I will assume that you did not rank these.
#1 Again RPG’s more and more revolve greatly around dialogue,so it would not be too heinous for a player to reserve a few points to put into their speech skill seeing as how dialogue has far-reaching impacts more so than killing everything does.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki
Go to that website and read, then come back and tell me that you still believe that there’s a “lack of story”
The whole thing would read differently if it said “The top 6 reasons why I LIKE Fallout 3 better than F:NV”. But as soon as you state something as fact (“IS better”) you should really, really do your homework. Evidently you didn’t, with the result being so poor that it might just qualify as a troll attempt.
Speaking of troll attempt: The lack or abundance of dialogue and the what you call “forced” replay value are matters of preference. And since this little detail is so important i will say it again: They are MATTERS OF PREFERENCE. And why is that important? See first sentence.
Better luck next time.
Okay chaps, it’s alright to disagree with Steve and voice your opinion, but watch the personal attacks.
-Kevin Schram
TFTS Assistant Editor
I can’t believe some of these complaints. FORCED REPLAY? SPEECH CHALLENGES? CONTINUITY?
Honestly you have no room to talk because you haven’t played any Fallout games other than 3. 3 destroyed the lore aspect Fallout, lacked any logical sense when it came to setting.
This makes me fear for RPGs greatly.
Most of the “personal attacks” here are pretty mild. I’m actually somewhat amazed that the absurd opinion professed in the article hasn’t prompted anthing worse, considering what people on the internet are generally like.
Unless the bad stuff is being moderated out, in which case the pleas for mercy make a little more sense.
Anyway, as has been repeated several times, this needs to be retitled “top six reasons Fallout 3 was more consoleised than New Vegas.” Well, top five anyway. The point about bugs needs to be removed because Fallout 3 was just as bad an offender pre-patch.
Oh wait, top four… the point about a limited story is just plain wrong. New Vegas’ story is much more flexible than Fallout 3′s. That’s why it might seem shorter when you just plow through it- there’s so much more breadth to it (though the author calls this breadth “forced replay value), and length was sacrificed to pull this off successfully.
Well…no offense to the writer of this article, but I have a real fear that RPGs are going to cater more and more to people like yourself. That’s not a personal attack, it’s just an observation that you don’t really seem to be a RPG gamer.
I won’t go over continuity issues, because that’s already been beaten to death. Fallout 3 so vaguely resembles the original games so much it really could have just been named something else and no one would have batted an eyelash. New Vegas actually holds much closer to it’s fore fathers.
Points number 4 and 1 are especially way off in my book. First of all, whats the point of having multiple factions if you can just come and go as you please? All this does is create the illusion of a story with consequence, without actually having any consequence. By forcing you to be held accountable for your choices by closing doors to you actually creates consequences, rather than just illusions. THIS is what a RPG’s story needs to be like.
Secondly is the problem with skill checks in dialogue. Once again, what is the point of having something in a game (ie: speech) that you invest points into, if it’s not going to change your experience depending on that investment? If speech checks aren’t going to make a major difference at certain points, and change things…then why even have them?
You’re not Master Chief. You’re not Marcus Fenix. You’re not Duke Nukem. You can’t do it all. These games aren’t roleplaying games, they’re just shooters. You need to make choices and live with the consequences. You can’t be good at everything…that’s the point of having variable skills to invest in.
The fact that you titled this “Fallout 3 is Better Than Fallout New Vegas” like it’s a fact, when it’s clearly just your opinion makes me shake my head.
Okay all – many thanks to those that have engaged in the conversation in a mature fashion but, alas, I’ve had it sitting moderating all the hardcore abuse that’s coming in, a lot of which is way, way beyond the pale.
No concerns with the fact that 99.9% of you disagree with the post but, in all honesty, moderating the sort of comments I’m seeing day in day out is getting pretty tiresome and I have better things to do with my time, as I’m sure we all do.
Comments here are now closed.
TFTS Editor