Adobe: Apple Blocking Flash For Corporate Gain [Adobe Product Manager Claims iPhone, iPad Are Without Flash Because Flash Apps Could Replace Paid Apps]

Posted on TFTS by Kevin Schram on Thursday, 25. February 2010 under: Devices, Mobile/Cell Phones

When it was noticed that the iPad was without Flash, Apple was quick to point out that it’s buggy and slow. Rumors also circulated that Steve Jobs was taking up some noble cause to bring down Flash’s dominance on the web and popularize HTML5. A manager from Adobe is now stating that Apple is blocking Flash for one reason – profit.

Adobe Product Manager Adrian Ludwig went on the offensive at biconews.com as he defended his company’s product against Apple’s claims. His first point is that Flash has been running on mobile phones for some time now, with none of those models featuring a loss in stability or battery life.

Ludwig says that Apple has blocked Flash on the iPhone and iPad for their own profit. As he puts it, if users could go to Hulu to watch recent TV shows, they wouldn’t need to purchase them from iTunes.

Likewise, Ludwig says that Flash games and applications hosted on the web would lure people away from the paid apps on the iPhone and iPad – of which, Apple takes 30%. Ludwig pointed out that other scripting languages, Java, Ruby, .Net and Python are also blocked on the iPhone OS, and from his point of view, it’s all about protecting Apple’s profits.

It wouldn’t be the first time that the Jobs administration at Apple has done something like this. After all, he did kill the Apple Clone program – and originally the iPod Shuffle only worked with the Apple-branded headphones. And Apple’s draconian and secretive iTunes App Store approval process is hardly open.

With the upcoming HTML5, Adobe’s Flash does seem to be in dire straights, but Mr. Ludwig does make some valid points. Which side – Apple or Adobe – is telling the truth on the real reason for the iPhone OS’s lack of Flash support? We’ll let you decide, but the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

Source

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Michael Goldsmith
Mr. Ludwig is a tool and you are too for giving this wrong headed POV a voice.
Flash, on OS X is an ABORTION. That clear enough? It IS buggy and it IS slow on OS X. That’s NOT an OPINION. That is a bonafied FACT. Mr. Ludwig should maybe hire a couple more Mac CODERS and present a version of Flash for OS X that is as fast as it’s Window’s counterpart. THEN, we’ll talk about putting it on the mobile devices Apple offers.
Also, you look like a fool when you bring a Strawman like Apple Clones into the discussion. Strawman, look it up.
Microsoft, won’t let me sell clones of it’s XBox 360 because they’re afraid of competition. See how that makes no sense? XBox 36o is Microsoft’s IP that they developed. They are under no obligation to give it away. Neither is Apple.
Obviously Apple isn’t the slightest bit intimidated by Adobe. I’m sure that really burns their ass too. But again, they need to fix Flash on the OS X desktop and then we’ll talk.

Kevin
I wasn’t taking a stance on either Adobe or Apple’s side on the issue.
Really?
I gotta disagree with Michael Douchesmith. He most likely just has a beef with Adobe form some reason. I’m guessing he’s the type of guy that would defend MS Paint is a better software than Photoshop just because it uses less CPU to run. I’ve used both Mac and Windows for the last 10 years and although flash does run better on a PC, it’s not as bad as what the MS/Linux cockbags will have you think. As much as I like Apple products I do think they are shady. No one in their right mind would buy tv episodes from itunes if they can watch them for free on hulu and apple definitely acknowledges that. Same with the apps.

Michael Goldsmith
@Really?,
Yeah, really. Hey, at least I have the guts to put my name on what I write. I’ll let your post speak for itself. You’re obviously a genius that I couldn’t hope to beat in a debate, so I won’t bother. You win.

Gary
This article is a great example why Flash is bad. It has all those little pop up ad words through out the article. It is almost impossible to scroll through the article and read it without all those annoying pop up flash ads. I say lets all get rid of Flash.

http://nexus404.com/Blog Andrew
Hi Gary,
The ads you refer to are JavaScript based and the income they generate helps pay for the writing team we have on TFTS as well as the server we use to host the site, so, with respect, I’ll make no apology for them.
Running a site with this level of traffic and with a team of writers needs funding – no funds, no writers and no site.

Darren
@Michael, Ludwig was stating the obvious and no-one will disagree with you that Flash is slower on the Mac. There’s very good technical reasons for this if you’d care to take the time to understand them (see here for example: http://www.kaourantin.net/2010/02/core-animation.html). If Apple allowed Flash access to OpenGL (through Safari) and GPU-assisted H.264 decoding (through OSX), Flash on OSX would be as fast as the Windows version. Maybe you could write to Mr. Jobs and ask him to do this?

Michael Goldsmith
@Darren,
Yeah, I read that. All of it. He’s an engineer on the Flash team. He’s not going to put himself down. C’mon. Just tell us peons that big bad Apple has locked them out of the codebase and we’ll fall all over ourselves to beg him for forgiveness. No, not so much…
The APIs and Core OS tech in OS X is more open than Microsoft and Windows would ever dare allow.
To hell with Safari 4. The goddamn Webkit source is OPEN and freely available! Why don’t those guys put out their own version of it, ala Google Chrome? A Flash Browser as it were, and blow the doors off Safari and it’s super secret “drawing model jungle”?
I saw nowhere in that piece where even the Adobe shill claimed Apple had them LOCKED out. That’s just what Adobe apologists read into it.
Lame

Darren
@Michael Goldsmith, what part of that article is untrue or incorrect? Are you suggesting that Adobe should add another browser to the market – on top of Safari, Chrome, Firefox and Opera – and immediately convince the majority of Mac users to use it so that Flash can run at the same speed as Windows on OSX? What about people that might prefer to use other browsers? I think it’s an unreasonable expectation to expect Adobe to create/rewrite the major browsers on OSX. People are always asking, “Why does Flash run slower on the OSX?”. The reason is that Adobe is working within the limitations of the browsers on that platform. As the browsers improve, so does Flash. This is reasonable.
An no, there is no way for Flash to gain the necessary access for GPU-assisted H.264 decoding. QuickTime has access to it and native apps on OSX can use QuickTime but it’s totally unsuitable for a browser plugin like Flash. What do you suggest Adobe can do about this without Apple’s help?

Corey
Clunky Flash or not.. Its obvious that Apple is no saint. They are attempting to corner the market on music, books, entertainment and interactive media by dictating what they think is worthy and not allowing us to decide for ourselves. (Watch out ebay.. you are probably next)
I think we are all in favor of open source.. allowing the collective coding community to show its best. But I think this same philosophy would include open ACCESS as well… without big brother deciding whats best for us.
Using the term with a little more civility. Flash is but a “tool”.. as is objective C. Steve Jobs says that 90% of the Safari crashes are caused by Flash. But my iPhone now crashes 100% of the time because of poorly formed applications… many many times!
Both are tools and like any tool they can be wielded improperly.
My experience with Flash on my Mac is that it will slow at times.. but rarely crash. The apps on my iPhone on the other hand will simply close. Mac should ensure their alternative to interactive media is actually better before THEY can talk.
Clifford
Maybe the “real agenda” is not quite what Mr Jobs says in public. But he’s much closer than this article, which is, frankly, clueless. This has nothing to do with protecting the App store. Try looking at the following:
1. To protect users from viruses, Apple does not allow the installation of third party language subsystems (like Flash) that can freely download and execute code of unknown provenance that may exploit flaws. Javascript is your only choice for freely programming, because that’s the one Apple can fix at short notice if it’s exploitable. Monkey see, monkey do: Microsoft is going to lock Windows Phone 7 to Silverlight.
2. To protect users from malware, Apple insists that users install only signed apps, of known provenance, delivered via the app store. If any malware is not detected at the time of submission, Apple can retrospectively block it on all iPhones/iPads.
3. Over 90% of deployed flash app(let)s rely on the existence of separate mouse/trackball and on-screen cursor. They cannot be made to work properly on a touchscreen device with no cursor.
4. Flash IS buggy. Adobe have been notified of bugs and insecurities, but has left them unfixed for 18 months or more.
5. Flash IS a CPU hog. Playing the same movie with Flash on my Mac uses twenty times the CPU power that HTML5/H264 uses. That equals nearly twenty times the battery juice used up.
6. There is no secure, DRM managed marketplace for Flash Apps to match the iTunes App store. Flash is not a competitive alternative either for developers doing it for a living, or for free app distribution. The App store is simply not threatened by Flash, which, like Javascript, is intrinsically unable to offer that kind of developer ecosystem. (unless Adobe goes into the phone business . . . )
Michael Goldsmith
Oh, and one more thing… Why is Microsoft’s Silverlight SO MUCH BETTER on OS X than Flash? Surely Adobe can write software as well as Microsoft, right? Lol! I guess they can’t.
wgobang
So, yeah, Apple is protecting their profits just as Adobe is protecting theirs by paying Ludwig to defend Flash.

http://www.rpm.com rpm
@wgobang, that’s what they say ‘an eye for an eye’

al
I really think that Apple’s move to not allow Flash is very stupid. Ok, it’s true that a whole lot of program crashes are caused by the fact that Flash is a buggy platform, and it’s true that it is used too much in places when other technologies like HTML5, CSS3 and JavaScript could do the job better, but still. Do something like process isolation to prevent crashes and then you have no problem ok? Seriously, it is totally unacceptable to not allow Flash content when so many websites use it so heavily. Youtube.com, many generic websites esp photo gallery websites, etc use Flash, and it must not be blocked. I for one do not want to be told what plugins I can install on a product that I purchase.

Adobe: Apple Blocking Flash For Corporate Gain [Adobe Product Manager Claims iPhone, iPad Are Without Flash Because Flash Apps Could Replace Paid Apps]

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